How to Survive the DS Forums
Man – this is just getting crazier and crazier.
As I said, one of my reasons for starting this site was to give people to let off a little bit of steam without being afraid of attack from the DS Forum Zombies.
I, myself, haven’t been reading the forums at all, so I’ve been missing a lot of the drama going on there. But, apparently, there was a big blowup over a post called, “My Experience Thus far as a CE” and all heck broke loose.
The writer Page1News left us a very interesting and enlightening comment. I emailed them to make sure we could slap it up here on the front page as our breaking news story.
(Sorry if I’m a little behind on all the DS forum drama. DS forum zombies scare me. Worse even than real zombies. At least you can kill real zombies.)
So here it is:
Hi all! I’m the infamous author of “My Experience Thus far as a CE.” I received a lifetime ban on the forums, all writer and CE groups and the PM messaging system. I sent a request to Eve to delete my CE account, but they refuse to. What part of “You’re fired!” do they not understand? Continuing to show up at the office after being let go … who does that? Anyway, since they won’t delete my account, I’ve been editing on my own terms. I edit the proper way in which I’ve been professional trained, and I send NO rewrites unless I have a MAJOR question. And since my ranting post, I refuse to reject articles unless it’s so bad that I can’t salvage it. I’ve only rejected one, based on not even coming close to what the title was asking for.
In my correspondence with Eve, I approached the topic of cyberbullying in the forums. I was personally attacked by RMattison, Editrix and two community moderators. So I stood up for myself … only to be banned, while the bullies continue their behavior. EVERYONE knows who they are, but Demand Studios loves these contributors, so I doubt the attacks will cease anytime soon. I find it utterly appalling that Demand Media condones and encourages behavior like that.
Since I made that long CE rant post, I just decided to do things my way. If an article needs to be rewritten, rearranged or whatever, I do it myself so that everyone gets paid in a timely manner, even if I have to do some research to get it publishable. That’s just the way I roll. I’ve NEVER had a reporter, writer, columnist or stringer ever complain about my editing.
I continue to write for DS as well. Yes, I make triple what I make as a CE. Because I am privy to all the CE guidelines, including the ones DS forbids writers to know about, I can get my articles approved within minutes of submission.
On another note: I did submit Federal form S-88, which requests that the IRS determine whether a working relationship is “employee-employer” or a 1099 contractor. The CEs have many, many restrictions, reviews and audits. The reason I wanted out of the CE gig was because I no longer felt self-employed. I was more stressed as a DS CE than when I edited on deadline for a major metro daily newspaper. That’s just not right.
Sorry this is so long, but I’ve been dying to find a place where I can share this information without fear.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees DS for what it is.
Sincerely,
Page1News
Breaking News – DS Insider Speaks!!????
Shouldn’t the title read:
Breaking New!! Disgruntled freelancer attracts attention through childish temper tantrum. Creates a following of other attention seekers. Related new on the forum.
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Domingo is a perfect example of what I am talking about. When confronted with evidence about a pattern of behavior, he denies that some other situation isn’t happening. They zero in on the word “quota” as if it meant a formal, in-writing policy where everyone was told to produce 3 rewriters per day or produce a 25% rate of rewrites minimum and regardless of circumstances. NO ONE EVER MADE THAT CLAIM, so why do you and people like you continue to deny that claim rather than speak to the actual issue?
When someone spends all their time talking about a problem that doesn’t exist instead of the one actually raised, it’s a sterling silver indication of their integrity… nevermind their poor debating skills.
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Copy 2 Edit..how exactly did Eve refuse to remove your permissions? I worked titling and my permissions were removed when I emailed them and asked them to.
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Domingo: You’ve had too much Kool-Aid. When the CEs get bad reviews for lack of “gatekeeping,” the natural response for a CE is to send out more rewrite requests. OF COURSE, there’s no DS policy that states CEs must send out 50 (or whatever number) percent rewrites. It’s an IMPLIED policy given by the copy chiefs who do the CE reviews. My experience as a CE and those of my inside sources is that the more a CE sends back for rewrite, the better the CE review, such as “great gatekeeping. Keep up the good work.”
So, Domingo: Empirical studies speak louder than your words.
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You have no reason to trust me or accept what I say, but I can tell you I’m very firmly in a position to know. Editors of any longevity, whether they’ve been with the company a day or since its inception, have absolutely no quota regarding numbers of articles they must reject or send back for rewrites. Zero. Doesn’t exist.
Take it or leave it, but it’s the truth.
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Eve is easily the most anti-writer part of the content staff at DS. I’ve had side with CEs on plain text style guide issues and issues where a CE ordered me to write material that contradicted the facts.
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Something to note about the whole quota thing, and the misinformation put out by the company and the brown-nosing forum zombies: nobody ever said that quotas were OFFICIAL, IN-WRITING POLICY at the company. Instead, all sources that have gone on the record and in the open about this said that conditions were such that many CEs respond with a quota system of their own, or that it seems like there is an unofficial quota system with the DS staff where lower ranking CEs who don’t send back enough stuff get dinged for it.
Nobody ever said “DS documents prove that CEs who do not send back 1 in 4 articles are reprimanded for it.” Yet that is what EVERYONE who comments on this issue, from the Forum Nazis to Richard Lally himself, deny. Basically, they spend all their time putting words into the mouths of their critics and then denying those words.
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One of the things that has changed about DS over the course of this year is the extreme double standards in the Forums. Basically, it is no longer a venue for people to freely ask questions or vent steam. There is a small clique of propagandists – one of the Community Moderators, Dirk, is among them – who patrol and attack troublemakers. They ignore the ignorant ranter and focus on people who make sense or offer *gasp* evidence. It is obvious what they want to do is curry favor with the management by making sure actual, useful advice and true facts never become widely distributed… and the scary thing is that this works, because these people use foul language that would get anyone else fire with impunity.
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It’s really interesting to see this. I’ve only been at this for about 2 months so I try to be respectful but I definitely feel like some CEs are so not doing their job. Rejecting an article when it only needs 3 words changed? What the fuck are you getting paid for?
I only hope this CE sees some of my work. d=
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Eve is a bitch.
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Frostbite:
I sent a request to Eve to delete my CE account, but she refused. Seems like they are kind of desperate for CEs and writers these days. I tried to dump DS as an editing client, but they didn’t want me to dump them. What part of “You’re fired!” do they not understand? Continuing to show up at the office after you’ve been let go … who does that?
So, DS decided I was “worthy” enough to churn out the articles and edit copy, but I wasn’t “worthy” enough to participate in any DS communications, other than via the Help Desk.
So since I can’t get them to terminate the work agreement, I decided to go rogue and do things my way at my own pace.
This situation prompted me to file an IRS Federal Form S-88, which requires the IRS to determine if the working relationship with DS is a 1099 contractor or an employee-employer relationship. This process can take up to six months to complete. It will be interesting to see the result, that’s for sure. Can you imagine DS having to pay retroactive taxes on all its employees?
FYI: For all my editing articles, I write a short comment and use a period for my signature. (.)
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Because I’m also a freelance travel writer for print pubs, I gravitate toward anything travel related. I also do a lot of immigration-related titles. And since I also publish a music magazine, I go for things like “Different Types of Drumsticks” or How-Tos like “How to Re-string an Electric Guitar.”
Title selection, for me, is all about what I know and how easily I can find resources to back me up.
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Page1 sounds awesome. DS needs more CEs like that in my opinion. Do you mind asking what kind of lists you write, Page1? I’ve been doing lists lately, but keep starting impossible ones and wasting a lot of time.
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I may be reading this incorrectly but how are you still editing if you have a lifetime ban? They are still letting you write and edit just not use the forums/pm’s? I have been noticing a lot of my articles have been flying through within minutes of submission this past two weeks, wonder if it’s you?
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Oh hell yes! You found us! Welcome to the Island of sanity that is Demand Studios Sucks, and good to see you’ve escaped the turbulent waters of DS insanity. Or something like that.
Thanks for the tips and if you have any more keep them coming. They are much appreciated.
I think you’ll like it here.
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Thanks and welcome!
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Hi all! Thanks for the warm welcome. I’m quite the leper at DS. But I’m chugging along at my own pace, on my own terms.
And yes, I acknowledge that I “imploded” on the “Seriously” thread. And I do apologize for freaking out. I feel like a complete idiot for getting sucked into the cyberworld of DSville. I just want to know where to get the horses, cows and fences (a la Facebook’s Farmville). LOL
As far as getting my articles approved within minutes: I only write “Lists.” My sentences are short and to the point. The articles are extremely dull and dry. I never put in any statistics or use general, sweeping statements. I only provide the required three items, list three web-based resources and two web-based references. I only write about what I know or have easy resources readily available for other topics.
My DS grade card sits at 4.0 and never changes. Not that it really matters to me anymore.
Because I no longer have access to PMs or the Title Clarification forum, I’m on my own, blindly writing. Eve said I only have access via the Help Desk, but you know how that goes … might get a response next month.
Anyway, that’s all I know. I just want to be helpful to writers so that they can make as much money as possible. And, at the very least, writers who read my initial post as CE now have a glimpse into the other side, which may help explain reasons for rewrites, rejections and other whatnot mayhem and foolishness.
Geez … I’m SO glad I found this site!
Have a great day, everyone! And Happy Father’s Day to all the dads out there.
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Welcome, Page1News! You’re a hero of the people here at DSS. Thanks for your honest assessment, and I’m sorry you incurred some wrath of the forum zombies. It was asinine and totally unprofessional what you were put through in the forums.
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“Because I am privy to all the CE guidelines, including the ones DS forbids writers to know about, I can get my articles approved within minutes of submission.”
Whaaaat? Minutes? If there are some secret magic sprinkles that you can put on your articles to make them process faster, why wouldn’t DS tell the writers? TPTB are always saying that what benefits writers also benefits DS. Are there some secret word count quotas, key word saturation levels, or robotic article editors?
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Hi Page….great to see you here! The attacks on you were totally irrational and outrageous. When you’d defend yourself against their bullying, you were the one accused of behaving inappropriately. Crazy, but not surprising considering the deteriorating mental health of so many of the DS zombies.
Hope your own health is improving, and look forward to reading more of your insights and experiences.
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Page1, WELCOME! I am so glad you found this site.
I read your original post about your DS experiences and it was an eye-opener for me. For the first time, I felt sorry for the CEs. And from the comments that followed, so did a lot of the other writers.
If you poke around here, you’ll find that your situation has been discussed a LOT. I’m shocked to hear that they refuse to let you go. As a freelancer, you should be able to walk at any time, so I applaud your effort to get the feds to look into their practices.
I hope you will be able to share with us some of the CE guidelines DS doesn’t want the writers to know. I’ve never understood why DS insists on cultivating discord and animosity between writers and CE. There should be ONE set of writing guidelines for both groups to follow. And then there should be clear job descriptions that outline the differences in behavior required to do the job. It’s that simple.
I’ve work for some badly run companies in my time, but when it comes to using sheer stupidity to keep its workforce continually up in arms, DS is without equal.
I hope we’ll see a lot more of you here!
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