How to Take A Shit
So we now have confirmation of a CE quota system spotted by DSS reader John…
That’s really interesting. I’ve been doing what John does and stay the hell away from the forums, so I can’t really delve into the drama.
I have been noticing that the queues have been REALLY picking up in speed lately. I’ve expect articles to sit around for a few days. I’ve gotten used to it since starting 2 years ago. But, just in the past couple of weeks, articles have really been – to coin a phrase – going through like shit through a goose.
I wonder if they’re cracking up the content-o-meter in light of what might be happening in the fall?
That just makes me wonder if they really thought all of this out, too. ”Let’s see, we’ll assemble a bunch of writers together, pay them shit, make tons of money off their writing without giving anything back, and then hope nobody says anything”.
WE’RE WRITERS!!!
Now, I know there’s been some discussion about what exactly constitutes writing in the comments there, but I think that if you’ve been paid for doing something, you can call yourself that. I had friends that made $10 doing comedy for one night. They got paid for it. They’re a comedian. They might be shitty comedians, but comedians none the less.
I’m just amazed that I was the first person to come up with a site for non Demand Forums Zombified comments. Grrrr….curse those Hub guys for starting their sites before me. I want us to be number one! We are on Yahoo! Whoo-hooo!
On that subject, Bing sucks a**.
I get nauseous when I read posts that cheer on CEs and proclaim that they should get raises. One of those CE threads got off on such a tangent. I’m all for merit based pay increases, but judging from the kinds of dumbass rewrite requests I get occasionally (With MOther Fukking Typoes inthe CE CoMMEnts Sections NO LesSS !!1!1!!!! Durrrr), this should not be given to *ALL* CEs. There are some CEs who process our content quickly and competently. *THEY* should get raises. But imagine if DS gave all of them more money, do you think DS would take it out of their own coffers or the writers’ rates? I mean, DS could afford it, but I have this nightmare that $15 How-tos suddenly become $14.50, $3 tips become $2.50…
I don’t think CEs should get a raise unless they give writers a raise too. It’s only fair considering that CE stupidiocy creates unnecessary work for writers. A raise will go to their heads and stupid rewrite requests will multiply tenfold. Give it to both groups or neither, but if they raise CE rates and not ours I will vomit. Uggggggh!
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2Sly4U, I had my first abandoned rewrite ever with a tip recently. It was clearly headed for rejection unless I supplied the misinformation the CE expected, which I was unwilling to do.
I probably spend a lot longer on tips than I should because sometimes I get one that defies finding a good reference and I get caught up in the chase. But I have no qualms about cutting a tip loose and giving up the princely sum of $3, where it would piss me off no end to abandon $15.
I wrote a lot of strategies in the beginning, but now I’m totally confused about them because all the titles begin with “How to” and won’t touch them.
Doesn’t that make them How To’s?
After being jerked around sufficiently by CEs, I’m now longer willing to invest the time it takes to craft a full article. If I can make a few bucks (a VERY few bucks) on the fly, fine. If a CE gives me any guff, it’s buh-bye to 50 words. No biggie.
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You got it, Sly. It’s a gig but it sho can suck.
Re rewrites: If I see the words “rework” or “rewrite” I just close the box and come back at a later date.
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Man, I have had more rewrites in the last few days than ever before!! This is infuriating because the reasons are SO STUPID. Like asking me to add something that just isn’t there. And they wanted me to totally rewrite a $3. piece. Um, for $3. No thanks.
Glad I have this place to vent. It’s a job. It pays money, no matter how little. I am just thankful I can do it and still be a stay-at-home mom.
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DS Witness Protection. Funny.
Blowups is a general mod butt-kiss palooza – if I’m remembering my threads correctly. I had to stop reading it and I don’t think I saw the thread that spawned the evil thing, either.
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I never saw the thread where Mommy explained the reason why she joined the DS Witness Protection Program and assumed a new identity. She HAS been griping a little bit lately about rewrites and, I think, rejects, which surprised the hell out of me.
I’ve always wondered if DS isn’t slipping a little extra sumpin’ sumpin’ to those community mods, but some of them were acting so tickled when they first got “promoted” that they seemed to have a buzz from the sheer prestige of being asked.
I’ll have to check out Mommy’s thread on “Blowups.” Is it another one of her sage advice diatribes, destined to endure forever as a sticky?
I’ve also noticed that a couple, like Dirk, Josh, and Elizabeth, don’t seem to be around too much anymore. They seemed fairly reasonable, although Dirk can be a douche at times.
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Yeah, I avoid political threads, too.
The health insurance fiasco was amazing.
The cultism is, too. I remember when I first started at DS, there was a particularly funny girl. Everyone loved her and I thought she was part of the clique but then she went off on a CE. I wish I could remember her name because she totally ripped the CE a new one, finishing the post by asking if their remarks were worth the $3.50. The post didn’t stay up for long, all of her posts disappeared and no one mentioned her again. That told me to lay low.
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How To Start A Content Mill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E
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Ugh, I’m so glad I don’t even bother visiting the forums. It’s frustrating enough hearing about the stupidity second-hand. I’m glad this site is going so strong, otherwise we would all be lonely in a world of ridiculous cultism.
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I skip political threads. The classist “y’all who are complaining about DS’s insurance not being real insurance should stop being lazy get real jobs and stop mooching off the gubmint!” comments in the original DS thread made me realize that no logic would ever occur on the DS forums over those kind of topics.
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Of course, this guy is my hero:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmGW8nflIQ&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvhfBlCYzPc&feature=related
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Betty: Re the racist comments in political threads..
OMG YES!! I read a few and was like “I hate you. Hate you all.” Dear GOD!
I had to go watch this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ4B7G8Rw3Q
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Wow. I just read Bobbie/Meghann’s new thread “Forum Blowups.” She should work for Fox News there’s so much spin. Totally a distortion of what actually happened, and the zombies are backing her tall tale up. Guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
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That entire thread was an attack on the CE, Page1News, led by the DS brown nosing CE, RMattison. And, of course, the other DS bullies chimed in since they have the mentality and maturity of junior high school students. It was painful to read, since Page1News is clearly suffering and going through some heavy shit – and all she really did initially was post her experiences as a CE – even stating up her front several times that she wasn’t speaking for ALL CEs.
I also lurk in the forums. I posted in a couple political threads, but quickly discovered that the majority of DS forum regulars are racist trailer trash who suck up to three or four big mouth leaders (also racist trailer trash) — and there’s no use trying to have an intelligent discussion with any of them. So I sit back and enjoy the freak show!
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Marsha,
The DS forum’s got it cliques and I could never figure them out. So I’d throw out the occasional “Congrats!” post but have always lurked because I’d hate to accidentally get into a row with 50 people over a remark I made about an a-hole editor. If I think the editor’s an a-hole, then no amount of bickering is going to change that. Just keep it to myself or, better yet, come over here and do it! Ha.
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I knew it on the traffic!
If you build a place for people to vent, they will come and vent. Looks around for magic cornfield.
Good old American burgers for dinner.
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Lurker, the Forum’s Mommy used to be a Latina who proudly used her real full name, now she’s suddenly Irish. Go figure.
There was a thread a while ago where she claimed she changed her name because someone misspelled her Hispanic middle name and it seriously traumatized her… give me a break.
She also just posted a thread about how no one was warned on RMattison’s thread because the thread was fine and there were no personal attacks… right. And yet obvious jokes and sarcasm get instant smackdowns. There is something seriously wrong with the forum moderation.
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spicy chicken and garlic, pesto rice with asparagus here.
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Karla –
I will tell you this, more than half the site traffic is STILL coming from – wait for it – yep…
demandstudios.com.
dinner time. i’m having some muthaf***in pizza.
word to your mothers.
p-dawg
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hahaha. great friggin’ thread!
being able to vent without worrying about your job – that’s all i wanted to give everyone a place for (oh yeah – and make cash. don’t forget the bottom line)
got a special present for all you loyal DSSers out there.
hopefully introduce it tomorrow or monday.
peace! (drops mike on stage. feedback)
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The mods HAVE to be getting something over there. Have to. I wish I knew what it was.
KW, I think they have their trolls spying and reporting. How else could the big cheese get wind of a thread gone wild so quickly?
I wonder how many of them lurk over here. I’d like to know that, too.
JJ, like the analogy.
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KW, I remember that suggestion… although I don’t remember which iteration I saw. I should probably clarify and say, any suggestion that actually requires work.
Like, you know, fixing the title categories. You know, the stuff that they always say is VERY important to them then never do a damned thing about. Because it’s easier to apologize and look busy than actually do something.
Back to the bad boyfriend, while it’s nice that the asshole keeps apologizing when he fucks up, it would be better if he would just STOP FUCKING UP!
Of course, the best thing to do is kick his ass to the curb. Unfortunately, that’s where the similarities between boyfriends and jobs end. You can quit a man, without another in the wings. Not so with jobs. Not in this economy.
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Mommy is irritating but another CM is much worse. This bitch fucked up and admitted on another forum that she’s only written 50 articles in the past two years at DS BUT she claims to make $2000 a month from DS alone.
um, bullshit
Even if she’s writing $25 Livestrong articles, that’s only $1250 over TWO YEARS, not two weeks like she claims. So, she doesn’t make any type of living from DS but she does spend countless hours in the forums racking up thousands of posts and searching out random blogs about DS to add her two cents… That just doesn’t make any goddamn sense to me. Nobody’s that big of a fucking loser, she’s getting something out of the deal.
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Oh, and there was one more time. I appealed a rejected fact sheet and won. They said they would supply a slightly different title and I could resubmit the article as-is because it was fine.
So a few weeks go by and I don’t see the new title on my work desk. Since I’d never been through this process before, I had the horrible thought that maybe they meant they’d throw a new title into that snakepit of a title list and I was supposed to ferret it out myself. Like I’m going to waste my time doing that for $5 (the going rate at the time).
I went onto the forums and mentioned what had happened. Within a few hours, the new title magically appeared on my work desk, which indicated to me that they ARE tracking the forums closely. Sitting around like a bunch of mean girls, checking to see who’s saying nasty things about them.
So I take every opportunity to get in a good jab. I know I must drive Mommy nuts, or she’s got me on Ignore because she NEVER responds to me.
Not meaning to brag here, but my scores, until last month, were all in the 4s, and my rejects/rewrites/abandons are low, so I’m not a writer they want to lose. Now I’m a 3.9 for grammar because I’ve been writing tips, and CEs think writers turn into idiots and ferget all they’re grammer and larnin’ when they write shorter pieces.
PS: the original rejected title still sits on my work desk, even though it’s been published, because DS is completely helpless to correct such INFURIATING little quirks of the system.
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Lurker, the Forum’s Mommy used to be a Latina who proudly used her real full name, now she’s suddenly Irish. Go figure.
I used to choke on the dust from her pom-poms when she was just one of us, but when they invited her to that little pow-wow in CA last year (the highlight of her life, it would seem) and elevated her to “Community Mod,” they truly created a monster. I don’t know how she gets any writing done that pays. She’s trolling EVERY thread.
JJ, I do know of one instance where DS changed something after it showed up on the forums. I don’t know if I had anything to do with it, or if it had been suggested before, but once I suggested that they put navigation at the TOP of the page on the title lists, because you used to have to scroll to the bottom of every page to advance.
I pointed out that they’d already done it somewhere else on the site, so the coding should just basically be a copy of that.
Like anything I write over there, that post was ignored. I expected the fucking cheerleaders to jump in and support me on that because it was a no-brainer time-saver for ALL of them. But no. The thread sank like a stone. I do think they all hate me because I refuse to drink the Kool-Aid.
Then somebody else brought it up. Next thing you know, DS has added it to the titles and everybody’s “Ooohhh!! How marvelous!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH DS!!!! We LOVE you. We’re so LUCKY. Kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss!”
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It is refreshing here.
Money = bottom line.
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I can NOT, for the life of me, understand why people keep offering suggestions in the forums. Specifically, I do NOT understand why certain people keep trying to present ideas to DS on how to run things.
Most of these people have been around long enough that they should understand that DS doesn’t give a shit.
Case in point: the CE incentive program that someone suggested. Never gonna happen. And if it does, it won’t be because some writer suggested it in the forums. It will be because they decide it will, somehow, make them more money.
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You mean that “Bobby” lady who keeps changing her name? She slaps everyone’s hand if they even try to incorporate a little wit/sarcasm/humor in their post. ugh.
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PS: I must say that it’s very refreshing to be able to vent here without having a Community Mod “Mommy” chiming in on every thread with a “Tsk, tsk!” and a threat to shut down the thread or, oh, horrors!, go running to “Remi,” whatever the heck that is, and tell on us.
You regular forum readers know who I’m talking about… The head cheerleader.
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Jaws. I like it.
I’m like you, KW. DS is not my first choice. I’m not a super-earner, though. I came over here looking for tips because I wanna make 1,000 bucks a week, too.
It will be interesting how things will evolve… In my jaded mind, I don’t see DS investing one more cent into anything – now or later – when they already know what they can get for boatloads of content. They’ll probably let the ship sink and move on.
The USA crap is absolutely astounding.
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Yup, the USAToday articles only pay $20, yet they’re supposed to sparkle with wit and personality, have tons of references AND be full of original insider knowledge of the place (they’re all travel articles). Try finding a reference for your original insider knowledge. It’s a Catch-22 and, as usual, the writers are getting screwed. Doing an inordinate amount of work and getting it thrown back in their faces by super-vigilant CEs finding fault with everything. I’ve claimed several titles I could have easily written, but ended up throwing them back once I got into it because I couldn’t find references that would pass muster.
They SAY they want original work, yet reject you if you can’t find everything you’ve written somewhere else. It’s insane.
I’ve gotten to the point where I will only touch tips and short answers because it drives me batty to spend an hour or 2 doing a full article, only to end up sparring with some idiot, anonymous CE over trifles.
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I just read in a thread from a frustrated USA Today writer that you guys only get paid 20 bucks for those pieces. That’s insane! In what world or situation can you imagine other than one where DS is directly involved where anyone would think it okay that someone would get paid twenty lousy bucks for writing for USA Today. Imagine how much the two monolith companies involved are making off those pieces.
What you said about Rosenblatt being like the shark in “Jaws” made me think of something: A movie called “Swimming With Sharks.” I wouldn’t be surprised if in real life Rosenblatt is like the Kevin Spacey character in that movie. To be fair, I don’t really have any truly legitimate reason for saying that, but I still think it’s funny to at least imagine it that way. And I wouldn’t exactly be shocked if it turned out I was right…
Oh, and the younger guy (not sure his name) is like all the DS Zombies.
Maybe it’s just because they kind of look alike. Anyone here’s the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFs5rDGU6Dc
It’s almost too good.
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Good analysis, Adam V! Every time I see a photo of that guy Rosenblatt, I think of the shark in “Jaws.” He has to keep moving to survive, and right now he’s feeding in waters teeming with desperate little fish.
When DS goes public, I see 2 possible scenarios: 1) It will implode under the weight of its uselessness and Rosenblatt will pocket his profit and start up a new crap-mill, leaving screwed shareholders in his wake, or 2) It will be forced to become a “real” company, which means kicking the hack cheerleading squad to the curb and courting “real” writers with experience beyond Web fluff. They’ll have to pay more, which means stringent hiring requirements. And to keep anybody, they’ll have to can the Mickey-Mouse formats and editing games. And probably that ass, Lally.
If DS doesn’t do it, somebody else will and they’ll eat DS for lunch. With print pubs dying everywhere and e-readers becoming more popular, the Web has to fill the void of quality content.
DS talks a good game, citing their “pretigious partnerships,” but have you noticed that many experienced writers have sworn off USAToday because the terms are ridiculous and they keep getting burned? I’m one of them.
They keep increasing my queue, and I just got access to some bizarre list called “Affiliates,” but I’m not biting. As long as I’ve got some decent-paying work elsewhere, DS will remain at the bottom of my list of options.
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All snark aside, this is what truly bothers me about all the bullshit from Demanding Studios.
Most of this stems from them wanting to be cheapasses and MASSIVELY underpay staff. If they truly want an upgrade in quality, up the pay by a few dollars per article for CE’s and writers. They might find a more motivated staff and hey, surprise, more qualified people willing to do the job right. This is pure greed, and it’s disgusting.
They’ve obviously tried to milk the recession by paying shit and expecting the world. That might work in a reign of fear, but it won’t work forever, and any initial IPO purchasers are going to be sorely disappointed when their investments end up in the penny stocks.
Here’s the really incredible thing. Demand’s higher ups know all this. It’s been proven to DS more and more as time goes on that this business model is not sustainable. What do they do? Increase intolerance in forums. Promote “yes” lackeys, a sad group who adamantly promotes policies that keep them down. Crack down harder on CE’s. Tell writers they should be grateful to be treated like shit. Hope to cash out big on the IPO, then move on. This is like inept venture capitalism in online form.
All because they don’t want to part with a few more dollars for higher quality staff and higher quality writing. They should be embarrassed by these low rates, and god knows the journalism community finds them a laughingstock. Perhaps that’s why Oz… I mean, Lally… swoops in so self righteously so often. He knows he’s a joke. Except to the DS forum.
Viva la revolution. I hope this site gets read by every initial investor in the IPO and they learn what a house of cards Demand Studios truly is.
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Wasn’t RMattison one of those CEs bitching about shitty DS writers forcing her to work for less than minimum wage just a few months ago? You’d think she could sympathize with a disappointed, yet polite, CE describing her experience with DS.
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Yeah, that’s sad and why I don’t hang much in them there forums. Zombies can be mean.
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CE smackdown on the nauseatingly self-righteous RMattison’s new thread called “Seriously.” I actually feel bad for the CE, Page1News. She showed some Real Feelings and opened up a bit – which is against the strict forum zombie code! Now they’re having her for dinner………
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KW, yes, that’s the thread. I can’t imagine worrying over any job laid up in the hospital. Her description of the editing process is right on. They should call them “article checkers” because that’s what they are. That thread is so sad because the only nice things about DS are that they pay twice a week and they pay more than the next article mill. If another mill emerged tomorrow paying $16 or $17 per article and paid once a week, how many would jump ship? It is what it is. 100 words? Really? I didn’t participate in that because I haven’t sold my soul to them yet. Patrick, you should do it. 100 words of DSS. Might have some defectors come over for a piece of that pie.
And I’ll sit on my next rewrite – if I’m not too strapped for cash.
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Ha! The 100 words of DS. Fucking hilarious, that. Hey, Patrick, you should set up a specific part of this site where we can write 100 words of DS. Obviously ours would be honest, instead of commercials. It could be funny to see what people come up with. In fact, if you don’t do it I will, devote a whole site to it. I’m lazy, though, and am working on other sites at the moment so I think you should just do it.
As for CE’s sitting on rewrites or sending things back for stupid things, there is a way we can kind of sort of get back at them. They get paid no matter what we do (send in the rewrite, let it expire, or send it in and get rejected), but we can slow down their roll, so to speak. Since they apparently really are working on quota system, and that quota counts all rewrites, which don’t get counted until they are sent back and either rejected or accepted. What I usually do, unless I really need the money fast, is wait until the last possible moment to send my rewrite back to the CE to be reviewed if they’ve sent me a rewrite request over something trivial. If it’s legit I just do it right away, but if I think they’re being asses about it I do my rewrite, save it unsent and then wait until the last day to send it back to them. It’s not a huge victory, but even small victories can make all the difference.
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“I didn’t contribute because I couldn’t think of any way to stretch, “They pay twice a week,” into 100 words, and they tell us never to pad.
”
LOL
I felt the same way.
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karla, do you mean “My Experience Thus far as a CE?” That’s the one I was referring to when I mentioned the CE who told DS to shove it. She says she was in the hospital getting heart stents, but was so worried about her edit queue that she had her husband bring in the laptop so she could work in bed.
Then all the cheerleaders leapt out with pom-poms waving, telling her to take a few days off and come back. Freaking morons. When somebody can’t have heart surgery without worrying more about the DS gods smiting them, there’s a problem.
And I have to ask you all this: Did you participate in the thread a few months ago when DS went fishing for compliments, asking for 100 words of praise? I think there are hundreds of posts now. I read some at the beginning and spent the next week scrubbing the puke stains out of the carpet around my computer.
I didn’t contribute because I couldn’t think of any way to stretch, “They pay twice a week,” into 100 words, and they tell us never to pad.
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The CE Experience thread is a good read, too.
Dayum.
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Thanks, KW. Crazy long post but those are usually the ones with good info.
They do need to do something thing their style guides. Bonfire followed by fresh slate sounds good.
And to the rack with nit-picking CEs!
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And then there are the nit-picky bastards. Sheesh!
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karla, it’s in Feedback/Suggestions and titled something like ‘”Overwhelming volume” of rewrite/rejection appeals’ and has 145 posts last time I looked. It’s a big thread.
And I just noticed in the Studio news there’s a new Appeal Guide.
ANOTHER FREAKING GUIDE???!!!
Instead of adding another layer of rules, it would be so nice if they’d just go back through the mountain they’ve already created and get them consistent. It’s such a conflicting mish-mash, the only thing that’s clear is “follow AP style.” At least AP has its act together.
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Or they decide to let it sit because you’ve dared to disagree with them (or talk) back.
IE: They say the article doesn’t address the title because the title says “import” and you say “open.” So you have to explain to them how, in THAT version of the software, they are one in the same.
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Oh, JJ, you are so right! WHY, WHY, WHY do they do this? I’ve had simple little rewrites sit for 3 days while all the new stuff is flying through.
It’s hard not to believe there isn’t some spite involved. “OK, little writer, you’ve made me look at this article TWICE (because I refused to fix your stupid typo because I’m a bitch and don’t know what the word ‘edit’ means), so I’m going to let you dangle, wondering if I will REJECT for some other unspecified reason — just because I CAN!”
It’s sick.
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I just want to say that I absolutely love, Love, L-O-V-E, LLLLLOVE it when a CE sends back a re-write for something minor, trivial or stupid, then lets it sit in their queue for DAYS, even if you send it back to them within minutes.
And I especially LURVE when it happens on the last day of the pay cycle.
Thank you so much, CE, for wasting my time with a trivial rewrite AND screwing me out of getting paid for it when I should.
I hope that you’ve been hit by a car, and are currently in the hospital with amnesia, because that’s the only excuse I’ll accept.
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I haven’t seen any hard numbers in the forums on rewrites/rejects, and I poke around just about every day, even if I’m not writing for them, just to keep abreast of the never-ending f**king changes to the rules.
What’s being bandied about is that certain CEs are not being adequate “gatekeepers.” Apparently, that’s a word that strikes terror in CEs. When they are not being a good gatekeeper, they are letting too many writers get paid for publishing work that is FAR below DS’s lofty quality standards.
To gatekeep well, CEs are apparently expected to send most everything back and/or reject it until writers start questioning their sanity and raising a stink on the forums.
In human resource terms, it’s called “managing through intimidation.”
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The quotas of editing 75 articles per week are well-known… but are the quotas you mention specifically, “CEs must send back ___# of rewrites/rejects”? The latter is what I find super-shady…
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